Full Version: What Is A Cave?
Each of us must ultimately decide in our own heart what we can do and still consider ourselves quit. Often it is up to individual quit groups to decide whether a fellow member has caved and should still be allowed to post roll with them. The purpose of this poll is to allow members to anonymously vote on what they feel is a cave so that we will have a more accurate picture of the overall feelings of our community. Each member is only allowed to vote once, but you may select multiple choices in the poll. You also may include comments in a separate post if you wish.
I believe that it is okay to use the patches or gum to get off the chew, but you must ween off of it too. Once you are off of them, then you must stay off of them. Just another opinion!
Everyone's got to define it for themselves.
I think it's easier to quit without NRT, but I think NRT users are still quitters unless they've been completely nicotine free for a meaningful period of time and then they start using NRTs. To me, it's the difference between using NRTs to quit and abusing them.
At any rate, this is just the way I look at it within the confines of my own quit. Y'all fockers can pursue things however you want as long as it doesn't involve putting tobacco leaves between cheek and gum.
And, for the record, smoking will lead directly to dipping. You can call yourself "quit" if you smoke, but I guarantee you won't be that way for long.
I think it's easier to quit without NRT, but I think NRT users are still quitters unless they've been completely nicotine free for a meaningful period of time and then they start using NRTs. To me, it's the difference between using NRTs to quit and abusing them.
At any rate, this is just the way I look at it within the confines of my own quit. Y'all fockers can pursue things however you want as long as it doesn't involve putting tobacco leaves between cheek and gum.
And, for the record, smoking will lead directly to dipping. You can call yourself "quit" if you smoke, but I guarantee you won't be that way for long.
I think using a quitting aid (whatever that aid may be - gum, patch, etc) is acceptable as long as the quitter follows the program to HELP them quit. I went cold turkey, but I have seen some members use these aids successfully. I think it is detrimental to a quit if these aids are used incorrectly or on a whim to curb a crave (as we have had members here addicted to the gum for years because it was not used as a program...10 years dip free, but addicted to the gum for 10 years - not sure if anyone was addicted to the patch or not). Introducing nicotine into the system after it has rid itself of nicotine is like playing with matches around gasoline...and many members here have had a few puffs of a cigarette on a Friday night after along night of drinking and come back in on a Monday posting day 1 again, yet some people are big cut from a different mold and can successful have the puff of a cigar and not run back to the tin...I am not a gambling type of penguin willing to risk chances, but I am not everyone and would urge quitters to think twice before reintroducing nicotine into their bloodstream after quitting.
It would be interesting to see what the debate was like if AA was divided into to schools, one being Hard Liquor AA and one being Beer AA...Would they debate a martini being a cave for the beer AA? Or a drug addict quitting crack by switching to a few hits of cocaine every now and then? We are a quit smokeless site, and that usually offers a loophole. Maybe that's just what the nic demon wants...a loophole.
It would be interesting to see what the debate was like if AA was divided into to schools, one being Hard Liquor AA and one being Beer AA...Would they debate a martini being a cave for the beer AA? Or a drug addict quitting crack by switching to a few hits of cocaine every now and then? We are a quit smokeless site, and that usually offers a loophole. Maybe that's just what the nic demon wants...a loophole.
[quote name='penguin' date='Jan 20 2009, 09:16 PM' post='5384302']
I think using a quitting aid (whatever that aid may be - gum, patch, etc) is acceptable as long as the quitter follows the program to HELP them quit. I went cold turkey, but I have seen some members use these aids successfully. I think it is detrimental to a quit if these aids are used incorrectly or on a whim to curb a crave (as we have had members here addicted to the gum for years because it was not used as a program...10 years dip free, but addicted to the gum for 10 years - not sure if anyone was addicted to the patch or not). Introducing nicotine into the system after it has rid itself of nicotine is like playing with matches around gasoline...and many members here have had a few puffs of a cigarette on a Friday night after along night of drinking and come back in on a Monday posting day 1 again, yet some people are big cut from a different mold and can successful have the puff of a cigar and not run back to the tin...I am not a gambling type of penguin willing to risk chances, but I am not everyone and would urge quitters to think twice before reintroducing nicotine into their bloodstream after quitting.
It would be interesting to see what the debate was like if AA was divided into to schools, one being Hard Liquor AA and one being Beer AA...Would they debate a martini being a cave for the beer AA? Or a drug addict quitting crack by switching to a few hits of cocaine every now and then? We are a quit smokeless site, and that usually offers a loophole. Maybe that's just what the nic demon wants...a loophole.
[/quote]
Sorry, I don't know why the quote tags are not working properly. The above is Penguin's post, below is my reply:
AA has a policy of no alcohol, period. Not beer, not cough syrup...nothing. Interestingly, you can be a member of AA in good standing, and be a pill popping, dope smoking, needle using drug addict, but the related 12 step programs, NA and CA (Narc anon and Cocaine anon) consider any use of intoxicants, wet or dry, as a relapse. A lot of people who quit drinking don't care for the AA model, and will prefer NA or CA groups.
I think using a quitting aid (whatever that aid may be - gum, patch, etc) is acceptable as long as the quitter follows the program to HELP them quit. I went cold turkey, but I have seen some members use these aids successfully. I think it is detrimental to a quit if these aids are used incorrectly or on a whim to curb a crave (as we have had members here addicted to the gum for years because it was not used as a program...10 years dip free, but addicted to the gum for 10 years - not sure if anyone was addicted to the patch or not). Introducing nicotine into the system after it has rid itself of nicotine is like playing with matches around gasoline...and many members here have had a few puffs of a cigarette on a Friday night after along night of drinking and come back in on a Monday posting day 1 again, yet some people are big cut from a different mold and can successful have the puff of a cigar and not run back to the tin...I am not a gambling type of penguin willing to risk chances, but I am not everyone and would urge quitters to think twice before reintroducing nicotine into their bloodstream after quitting.
It would be interesting to see what the debate was like if AA was divided into to schools, one being Hard Liquor AA and one being Beer AA...Would they debate a martini being a cave for the beer AA? Or a drug addict quitting crack by switching to a few hits of cocaine every now and then? We are a quit smokeless site, and that usually offers a loophole. Maybe that's just what the nic demon wants...a loophole.
[/quote]
Sorry, I don't know why the quote tags are not working properly. The above is Penguin's post, below is my reply:
AA has a policy of no alcohol, period. Not beer, not cough syrup...nothing. Interestingly, you can be a member of AA in good standing, and be a pill popping, dope smoking, needle using drug addict, but the related 12 step programs, NA and CA (Narc anon and Cocaine anon) consider any use of intoxicants, wet or dry, as a relapse. A lot of people who quit drinking don't care for the AA model, and will prefer NA or CA groups.
Well from my experience quitting heroin I know that if I were to use any other opiates (vicodin, morphine, codeine cough syrup) I would be back on dope and going full bore within days. I have only been off dip for 2 weeks now but I am on the patch. Once I get off the patch I imagine that if I were to use nic in any form it would probably bring me back to dipping before I knew what was happening. I have had a beer from time to time since I got off dope and I haven't had any problems with that...it hasn't caused me to use dope and I haven't become an alcoholic. But playing with fire in any form is gonna get you burned eventually if you are an addict. So I guess everyone has to know their own limits and also know that these chemicals are more powerful than we are. We have no control once we have crossed the line into addiction.
[quote name='Matt Dog' date='Jan 20 2009, 10:33 PM' post='5384326']
Interestingly, you can be a member of AA in good standing, and be a pill popping, dope smoking, needle using drug addict
[/quote]
No you can't, and if you attended meetings where that happened, it was one hosed up meeting. The requirement for AA is a desire to stop drinking, but No one in their right mind will go to a meeting and claim sobriety if they are still using street drugs or abusing pharmaceuticals.
Interestingly, you can be a member of AA in good standing, and be a pill popping, dope smoking, needle using drug addict
[/quote]
No you can't, and if you attended meetings where that happened, it was one hosed up meeting. The requirement for AA is a desire to stop drinking, but No one in their right mind will go to a meeting and claim sobriety if they are still using street drugs or abusing pharmaceuticals.
Any suggestions for the next poll?
I can't really point fingers or judge. I have a friend who quit smoking 5 years ago. To this day, he still uses commit lozenges - completely addicted to them - but has been cigarrette free for 5 years. I think the lozenges are better than the smokes but still not good. I would take the lesser of 2 evils in this case.\
Yeah, I know this is about dip. In my quit, I have had no nic at all - even a little for me would probably aid me in caving and buying another can. I am really close to that point now, but I made a promise this morning at roll call.
Yeah, I know this is about dip. In my quit, I have had no nic at all - even a little for me would probably aid me in caving and buying another can. I am really close to that point now, but I made a promise this morning at roll call.
if you aren't off NIC then you didn't cave. You may be done "chewing" but you are still aren't free of Nic util you stop all products with NIC.
IMO you need to stop all nicotine to be legit in posting here.
If you are off All nicotine and then use one of these to squelch a crave. Then YOU CAVED!
IMO you need to stop all nicotine to be legit in posting here.
If you are off All nicotine and then use one of these to squelch a crave. Then YOU CAVED!
if you aren't off NIC then you didn't cave. You may be done "chewing" but you are still aren't free of Nic util you stop all products with NIC.
IMO you need to stop all nicotine to be legit in posting here.
If you are off All nicotine and then use one of these to squelch a crave. Then YOU CAVED!
I cannot agree with one portion - a lot of us use fake dip (no nic) - to help the mental cravings. I do not (and 98% of the pollers do not) believe this is a cave.
IMO you need to stop all nicotine to be legit in posting here.
If you are off All nicotine and then use one of these to squelch a crave. Then YOU CAVED!
I cannot agree with one portion - a lot of us use fake dip (no nic) - to help the mental cravings. I do not (and 98% of the pollers do not) believe this is a cave.
I cannot agree with one portion - a lot of us use fake dip (no nic) - to help the mental cravings. I do not (and 98% of the pollers do not) believe this is a cave.
Yeah, I would agree with that. I meant that, if you use a product with Nic, then you have caved or haven't began the real quitting process.
smokey mtn is ok. but
Yeah, I would agree with that. I meant that, if you use a product with Nic, then you have caved or haven't began the real quitting process.
smokey mtn is ok. but
Yeah - its pretty disgusting stuff... I am liking it less and less. But it still helps on the morning drive to work and the evening drive home. I don't usually leave it in for more than 5 minutes though... as opposed to bear products which stayed in for hours sometimes!
smokey mtn is ok. but
Yeah - its pretty disgusting stuff... I am liking it less and less. But it still helps on the morning drive to work and the evening drive home. I don't usually leave it in for more than 5 minutes though... as opposed to bear products which stayed in for hours sometimes!
I'm glad that this loudly-held belief that "using a patch during one's quit of chewing tobacco is a cave" doesn't amount to the prevailing belief on the Quit Smokeless Support Network (QSSN). If these parochial beliefs were to become the predominant view than I would strongly suggest changing the site and organization's name to the Quit Nicotine Support Network (QNSN). In my short time here, I've seen a number of cold-turkey self-professed experts give in to intense cravings, while some of the guys like me using NRTs at the time yawned and fastened a patch to our arms.
The bottom line is: Do what you have to to quit the HABIT-forming, plug-and-spit, cancer-causing shit first, then worry about getting off the nicotine. Follow the programs to the letter and all that, yeah...
CWC
The bottom line is: Do what you have to to quit the HABIT-forming, plug-and-spit, cancer-causing shit first, then worry about getting off the nicotine. Follow the programs to the letter and all that, yeah...
CWC
What's the difference between using Smokey Mountain and a patch? One fixes the the physical addiction of Nic and one fixes the mental addiction of having a dip in your jaw.
They are both aids in quitting and neither one is smokeless tobacco. So why someone would say it's a cave for using a patch but not a cave for using fake dip is beyond my comprehension.
I chewed nic gum for the first few days of my quit and I used SMC for about 80 days. They both helped in different ways and both prevented me from an actual cave.
They are both aids in quitting and neither one is smokeless tobacco. So why someone would say it's a cave for using a patch but not a cave for using fake dip is beyond my comprehension.
I chewed nic gum for the first few days of my quit and I used SMC for about 80 days. They both helped in different ways and both prevented me from an actual cave.
[quote name='sgreath' date='Apr 25 2009, 09:51 AM' post='5429608']
What's the difference between using Smokey Mountain and a patch? One fixes the the physical addiction of Nic and one fixes the mental addiction of having a dip in your jaw.
They are both aids in quitting and neither one is smokeless tobacco. So why someone would say it's a cave for using a patch but not a cave for using fake dip is beyond my comprehension.
[/quote]
We have a member that got addicted to and used NRT for [u]TEN[/u] (10) years. In that case, using NRT in any form is not a lot better than using dip.
I used nic-gum for 97 days as a crutch to work up the courage to go cold turkey, mainly because I'd quit many years ago and knew it would be hard. The gum only delayed the full withdrawal and only marginally helped my quit.
My advice is to quit cold-turkey and get withdrawal over with. But if you cave to, after giving all nicotine up, to gum, patches, or lozenges, post DAY ONE when you are man enough to give them up.
[i]Euty ~ day nic-FREE 970.[/i]
What's the difference between using Smokey Mountain and a patch? One fixes the the physical addiction of Nic and one fixes the mental addiction of having a dip in your jaw.
They are both aids in quitting and neither one is smokeless tobacco. So why someone would say it's a cave for using a patch but not a cave for using fake dip is beyond my comprehension.
[/quote]
We have a member that got addicted to and used NRT for [u]TEN[/u] (10) years. In that case, using NRT in any form is not a lot better than using dip.
I used nic-gum for 97 days as a crutch to work up the courage to go cold turkey, mainly because I'd quit many years ago and knew it would be hard. The gum only delayed the full withdrawal and only marginally helped my quit.
My advice is to quit cold-turkey and get withdrawal over with. But if you cave to, after giving all nicotine up, to gum, patches, or lozenges, post DAY ONE when you are man enough to give them up.
[i]Euty ~ day nic-FREE 970.[/i]
-
What's the difference between using Smokey Mountain and a patch? One fixes the the physical addiction of Nic and one fixes the mental addiction of having a dip in your jaw.
They are both aids in quitting and neither one is smokeless tobacco. So why someone would say it's a cave for using a patch but not a cave for using fake dip is beyond my comprehension.
====================================
We have a member that got addicted to and used NRT for [u]TEN[/u] (10) years. In that case, using NRT in any form is not a lot better than using dip.
I used nic-gum for 97 days as a crutch to work up the courage to go cold turkey, mainly because I'd quit many years ago and knew it would be hard. The gum only delayed the full withdrawal and only marginally helped my quit.
My advice is to quit cold-turkey and get withdrawal over with. But if you cave to, after giving all nicotine up, to gum, patches, or lozenges, post DAY ONE when you are man enough to give them up.
[i]Euty ~ day nic-FREE 970.[/i]
============================
Boy...make sure you stay away from eating tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, drinking green teas.
"Nicotine at several ppm was detected in the dehydrated fresh produce of the Solanaceae species including tomato, potato peel, eggplant and green pepper. Its identity was verified by GLC, TLC and CC-mass spectrometry. The presence of nicotine in all parts of the tomato plant suggested biosynthetic origin. In contrast, the 2 to 23 ppm nicotine found in green tea and instant tea samples might be attributed to insecticide contamination. There was no detectable level of nicotine in non-Solanaceae fruit and vegetables and other processed foods analyzed"
Journal of Food Science - Aug 25, 2006.
[quote name='sgreath' date='Apr 26 2009, 03:54 PM' post='5429928']
Boy...make sure you stay away from eating tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, drinking green teas.
[/quote]
And how many people do you know that go into withdrawal - the fog, can't concentrate, the jitters, anger, etc. - after a tomato or potato or eggplant? You seen anyone with a 20 tomatoes a day habit that couldn't go an hour without one?
Come on...
Get real. Get honest. Get off addictive amounts of nicotine. Get FREE!
[i]Euty ~ day 971 nicotine-FREE[/i]
Boy...make sure you stay away from eating tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, drinking green teas.
[/quote]
And how many people do you know that go into withdrawal - the fog, can't concentrate, the jitters, anger, etc. - after a tomato or potato or eggplant? You seen anyone with a 20 tomatoes a day habit that couldn't go an hour without one?
Come on...
Get real. Get honest. Get off addictive amounts of nicotine. Get FREE!
[i]Euty ~ day 971 nicotine-FREE[/i]
Boy...make sure you stay away from eating tomatoes, potatoes, eggplants, drinking green teas.
=====================
And how many people do you know that go into withdrawal - the fog, can't concentrate, the jitters, anger, etc. - after a tomato or potato or eggplant? You seen anyone with a 20 tomatoes a day habit that couldn't go an hour without one?
Come on...
Get real. Get honest. Get off addictive amounts of nicotine. Get FREE!
[i]Euty ~ day 971 nicotine-FREE[/i]
======================
LOL...no, there's not many that get the fog from Tomatoes - just pointing out that Nic is in more than gum and chew, and if you are drawing a hardline in the sand that any nic use is a cave then you need to be aware that it's in everyday food too. What's the limit of PPM's you can have before you think it's a cave?
My real question to you though is do you consider it a cave if you quit chewing...use SMC for a bit and eventually quit using that. Then one day you pick up SMC again because of craves or triggers or whatever. Are you posting up day 1 because you put corn silk in your jaw?
=======================
First, using gum or the patch can be an effective, acceptable strategy. Our goal is to be free, and no one has a monopoly on the right way to quit chewing.
That being said, it's all about being honest with yourself. If you're chewing nicotine gum or using the patch because you are still addicted to nicotine, I think you are being dishonest about your true "level" of freedom. Anyone using an NRT and posting day one through whatever cannot reasonably claim to be as free as someone who has gone cold turkey and is off of everything.
It's like an alcoholic drinking small amounts of grain alcohol all day long to quit drinking beer. He's still not sober, even though he may be rid of the side effect of extra weight gain caused by all the carbs in beer.
However you get there, just get there. I don't really care whether you post while on NRT's or not. We don't have judges in here. Just know that the only person you can fool on this site is yourself.
That being said, it's all about being honest with yourself. If you're chewing nicotine gum or using the patch because you are still addicted to nicotine, I think you are being dishonest about your true "level" of freedom. Anyone using an NRT and posting day one through whatever cannot reasonably claim to be as free as someone who has gone cold turkey and is off of everything.
It's like an alcoholic drinking small amounts of grain alcohol all day long to quit drinking beer. He's still not sober, even though he may be rid of the side effect of extra weight gain caused by all the carbs in beer.
However you get there, just get there. I don't really care whether you post while on NRT's or not. We don't have judges in here. Just know that the only person you can fool on this site is yourself.
At 28 days anything with Nicky is a cave. At some other number greater then 28 it might not. Cant tell yet it is up to each individual that is dealing with this awful,nasty, habit to decide. Me COLD TURKEY or nothing, scramble my brains I mean what sain person would put shxt in their mouth ?
[quote name='rbajor' date='May 13 2009, 10:09 AM' post='5437217']
At 28 days anything with Nicky is a cave. At some other number greater then 28 it might not. Cant tell yet it is up to each individual that is dealing with this awful,nasty, habit to decide. Me COLD TURKEY or nothing, scramble my brains I mean what sain person would put shxt in their mouth ?
[/quote]
At some number greater than 14 would, in my opinion, be stupid.
At 28 days anything with Nicky is a cave. At some other number greater then 28 it might not. Cant tell yet it is up to each individual that is dealing with this awful,nasty, habit to decide. Me COLD TURKEY or nothing, scramble my brains I mean what sain person would put shxt in their mouth ?
[/quote]
At some number greater than 14 would, in my opinion, be stupid.
As for me with over 2000 days, mostly anything on the list would be very worrisome, if not a cave. Definitely, with my being free of nicotine for this long, ANY entry of nicotine in my body is an obvious cave.
Personally, if I were to use some fake dip, that would be a partial cave to me. This is because I would be moving in the wrong direction and this could be a step toward total relapse a foot at a time. I carried an unopened can of fake dip in my car for years and never used it. It was to only be opened in case a huge unforseen "to heck with it" event of the level of 9/11 or greater. However, over time I have realized that even in the event of such a world shattering world or even private event, I don't need it. Doesn't change a thing. I would be better off taking a shot of whiskey. (and no I am not a drinker).
Personally, if I were to use some fake dip, that would be a partial cave to me. This is because I would be moving in the wrong direction and this could be a step toward total relapse a foot at a time. I carried an unopened can of fake dip in my car for years and never used it. It was to only be opened in case a huge unforseen "to heck with it" event of the level of 9/11 or greater. However, over time I have realized that even in the event of such a world shattering world or even private event, I don't need it. Doesn't change a thing. I would be better off taking a shot of whiskey. (and no I am not a drinker).
Well, I beleive this site goes beyond the name of Quit Smokeless. It wouldn't be too big of a deal for many of us to just quit dipping and start smoking 10 packs of cigarettes a day or wall papering our bodies with nic patches or chewing 10 pounds of nicotine gum. We're addicted to nicotine in any form and it makes no difference how we get it...orally, anally, between the toes, under the eyelids...etc.
We're all here to quit dipping but moreover we're here to break our addiction to nicotine. I have a longtime QS friend that was addicted to nicotine gum. He used the gum to try to kick a different nicotine addiction. He joined the site and is still nicotine free.
I'm on the fence weather or not a nicotine patch is a cave or if nicotine gum is a cave but I'm damn certain that it's not fair to the others here that actually had to fight their way through the withdrawls. You see, when you quit dipping your body begins to purge nicotine out of your body and this can be pretty painful and stressful. For a person to just change the way they're administering the drug they're addicted to...well, I don't think it's right. It would be like an alcoholic being addicted to beer in a can and just switching to beer in a bottle and then joining AA....or a coke addict switching from snorting to injecting...same drug, different delivery method. With that said, I know there are some on this site that have used quit aids successfully so they can't be completely discounted.
In my opinion, all the nicotine quit aids do is to postpone the inevitable. A quitter will start reducing the nicotine doses by less gum or lighter pads and then at some time they'll get to a point where the nicotine level isn't adequate to "keep them happy". At that time they could either increase the dose or say "screw it, I've been without dip for 30 days and still feel like crap, I'm getting a tin". I'm a firm beleiver in just ripping the bandaid off and getting it over with...get past the suck as soon as possible and get on with your life.
We're all here to quit dipping but moreover we're here to break our addiction to nicotine. I have a longtime QS friend that was addicted to nicotine gum. He used the gum to try to kick a different nicotine addiction. He joined the site and is still nicotine free.
I'm on the fence weather or not a nicotine patch is a cave or if nicotine gum is a cave but I'm damn certain that it's not fair to the others here that actually had to fight their way through the withdrawls. You see, when you quit dipping your body begins to purge nicotine out of your body and this can be pretty painful and stressful. For a person to just change the way they're administering the drug they're addicted to...well, I don't think it's right. It would be like an alcoholic being addicted to beer in a can and just switching to beer in a bottle and then joining AA....or a coke addict switching from snorting to injecting...same drug, different delivery method. With that said, I know there are some on this site that have used quit aids successfully so they can't be completely discounted.
In my opinion, all the nicotine quit aids do is to postpone the inevitable. A quitter will start reducing the nicotine doses by less gum or lighter pads and then at some time they'll get to a point where the nicotine level isn't adequate to "keep them happy". At that time they could either increase the dose or say "screw it, I've been without dip for 30 days and still feel like crap, I'm getting a tin". I'm a firm beleiver in just ripping the bandaid off and getting it over with...get past the suck as soon as possible and get on with your life.
Here here! 100% agreed though I do drink!
I didn't choose fake dip, not because I use it but because it doesn't have nicotine. But your point OTH is well taken. It's the direction that's the key.
Everywhere I go since I quit I'm hyper sensitive (internally) to people smoking even though I didn't and probably because nobody chews here. I keep it too myself but I'm blown away by how many people want to kill themselves.
Insidious.
We all did the right thing.
And it's true, this is much more than just a quit site.
[quote name='OTH' date='Jul 4 2009, 10:04 PM' post='5458038']
As for me with over 2000 days, mostly anything on the list would be very worrisome, if not a cave. Definitely, with my being free of nicotine for this long, ANY entry of nicotine in my body is an obvious cave.
Personally, if I were to use some fake dip, that would be a partial cave to me. This is because I would be moving in the wrong direction and this could be a step toward total relapse a foot at a time. I carried an unopened can of fake dip in my car for years and never used it. It was to only be opened in case a huge unforseen "to heck with it" event of the level of 9/11 or greater. However, over time I have realized that even in the event of such a world shattering world or even private event, I don't need it. Doesn't change a thing. I would be better off taking a shot of whiskey. (and no I am not a drinker).
[/quote]
I didn't choose fake dip, not because I use it but because it doesn't have nicotine. But your point OTH is well taken. It's the direction that's the key.
Everywhere I go since I quit I'm hyper sensitive (internally) to people smoking even though I didn't and probably because nobody chews here. I keep it too myself but I'm blown away by how many people want to kill themselves.
Insidious.
We all did the right thing.
And it's true, this is much more than just a quit site.
[quote name='OTH' date='Jul 4 2009, 10:04 PM' post='5458038']
As for me with over 2000 days, mostly anything on the list would be very worrisome, if not a cave. Definitely, with my being free of nicotine for this long, ANY entry of nicotine in my body is an obvious cave.
Personally, if I were to use some fake dip, that would be a partial cave to me. This is because I would be moving in the wrong direction and this could be a step toward total relapse a foot at a time. I carried an unopened can of fake dip in my car for years and never used it. It was to only be opened in case a huge unforseen "to heck with it" event of the level of 9/11 or greater. However, over time I have realized that even in the event of such a world shattering world or even private event, I don't need it. Doesn't change a thing. I would be better off taking a shot of whiskey. (and no I am not a drinker).
[/quote]
Exactly!
But we did...
And now we don't.
Welcome rbajor
[quote name='rbajor' date='May 13 2009, 11:09 PM' post='5437217']
At 28 days anything with Nicky is a cave. At some other number greater then 28 it might not. Cant tell yet it is up to each individual that is dealing with this awful,nasty, habit to decide. Me COLD TURKEY or nothing, scramble my brains I mean what sain person would put shxt in their mouth ?
[/quote]
But we did...
And now we don't.
Welcome rbajor
[quote name='rbajor' date='May 13 2009, 11:09 PM' post='5437217']
At 28 days anything with Nicky is a cave. At some other number greater then 28 it might not. Cant tell yet it is up to each individual that is dealing with this awful,nasty, habit to decide. Me COLD TURKEY or nothing, scramble my brains I mean what sain person would put shxt in their mouth ?
[/quote]
"a large natural underground chamber"
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